Is Using MicroCoasters Cheating?

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Title	:	Is Using MicroCoasters Cheating?
Lasting	:	8.13
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Views	:	105 rb

Are microcoasters cheating? Let me answer that with more questionsbrbrAre glitches in speedrunning cheating?brIs cheating actually bad? (At least, in this context; it's a single-player game with no leaderboards, no competitive elements, and nothing really at stake)brWhat even is cheating anyway? If the answer is "breaking the rules", what even are the rules anyway?brbrThose questions do not have consistent answers
Comment from : @Manabender

In conclusion: Its only game! Why you have to be mad?
Comment from : @Buzzy913

Creative use of game mechanics
Comment from : @saalok

As far as I'm concerned, if the game is going to include penalties for stat requirements that players can't even view without datamining, it's fine to get a bit of payback once you know those requirements
Comment from : @AstralDragoon

Not cheating but definitely exploiting
Comment from : @SharksSJ408

When my friends and I played RCT as kids we knew about micro coasters We didn't have any super optimal designs, but we still made them We thought it was funny to make a ride that just did a circle and could scam guests out of tons of money They just kept coming back for more
Comment from : @uuhamm

MicroCoster is OK, but keep building same coaster is boring
Comment from : @DoomSpellSkadi

My philosophy for building RCT rides for my scenarios is "Would I actually ride these things if I was at a park?" I wouldn't shy away from trying one like it was a weird flat ride But a park full of them?
Comment from : @DoubleSmackJacksSmackAttack

2 years and NOBODY mentioned the ride name in the thumbnail?!!?
Comment from : @The_dislike_guy

I know I'm to years late to the party, but I want to brainstorm ways to make them not cheaty The issue is that they reward you like they are a full coaster while behaving more like a flat ride brbrPerhaps the easiest fix is to apply the ride requirements to guest cap and ticket price as well That way you'd be building minimalist coasters rather than micro ones (Those are gamey perhaps, and possibly lame to ride in real life but at least they fulfill a game definition of a "proper" coaster of that type) brbrUnfortunately, you can't easily penalize the use of identical coaster designs Even if you detected identical designs (through something like a hash function, for instance) you could just add random track sections so that the rides are no longer identical Detecting "nearly the same but with inconsequential differences" is even harder
Comment from : @gildedbear5355

I know you will likely never see this comment, but I just wanted to say I'm a new watcher who's been binging your content for the last couple weeks and I absolutely love it I love hearing not just how you play the game, but about your thought process behind how you play It's really helped to put me in a good headspace Much love ❤❤
Comment from : @RehenNodrog

I think the best way to patch microcoasters would be to have the duration of the ride have an effect on max ticket price The reason microcoasters are not realistic is because guests are paying way too much for what is obviously an extremely short and uneventful ride, so duration being a bigger factor would solve that and also balance throughput
Comment from : @SnakeonLSD

I always told my friends, if you can't beat RCT the "frontal assault" way, just use the cheesing If you still can't beat it, use cheats brThey're now playing Planet Coaster and now they're the one who exploits Grand Carousel and Big Screen Tour hundreds of times than I do
Comment from : @lastdeadangel

4:12 is not a microcoaster, that would be a compact design The micro corkscrew is what a microcoaster is This video comes off as defensive and full of semantics which it really does not need to, it's a single player game Yes, it's a massive exploit that makes anything easy mode, it's also a single-player game without official leaderboards, it need not go any deeper
Comment from : @Cyrus_T_Laserpunch

Cheating, not at all But outside the intended spirit of RCT? Yeah, I'd say so
Comment from : @Chaosmech

I’ve recently started watching your channel, and pretty quickly had to come to terms with my own opinion about micro coasters Since you asked, here you go:brbrIt’s a game Anything that exploits game mechanics in a clever and novel fashion is not a cheat It shows a level of knowledge about the game that I find impressivebrbrAlso, it’s extremely realistic from a purely capitalist perspective Companies will literally do anything that maximizes profit and minimizes cost Microcoasters are basically the American junk food of RCT2 Maybe but the most impressive things to experience, but extremely effective at what they do
Comment from : @kenrickman6697

Microcoasters, the amazon warehouse of rollercoasters
Comment from : @BWeManX

3:58 the way that you enjoy the most…however you want in the moment Anyone who complains and says otherwise is a clown Like I can’t believe this video even had to be made
Comment from : @JustHereForTheDialogue

for me, I don't like using them because when I play I try to make it seem like a park people would go to IRL, micro coasters are absolutely not something people would go on IRL, as they only work in game due to exploiting the guests very simple AI
Comment from : @Christina_Heiki

It's called cheesing not cheating You are exploiting game mechanics in an immersion breaking way There is nothing wrong with it, but it is an exploit that highlights the limitations of the game Cheesing the game!
Comment from : @jeremyboss3634

Do u have a how to build these micro coasters cause i cant figure out how to build them at all Lol
Comment from : @natureselement7588

It may not be a "cheat" but it's definitely an exploit "Optimizing the fun out of the game" so to speak
Comment from : @Sianostrakarenrenren

Microcoasters aren't cheating, they're cheesing, it's different
Comment from : @jttech44

I mean, it is a single player game And it's your single player game If you enjoy using microcoasters, your enjoyment is what matters I'm not a fan of it, so I'm not going to build any microcoasters for my parks anytime soon, but I'm also not going to call microcoasters cheating either Different strokes for different folks 🤷
Comment from : @DancingInDreamWorld

In the end i feel like people need to remind themselves that this is a game, let people play how they likebrbrI'v started to use some Micro Coasters recently but i hate looking at them since they look silly and unrealistic imo(Shuttle Loop being an exception if its only 1-3) but you can just hide them underground in this case ^^
Comment from : @Mannetasi

I definitely lean towards more immersion and "realistic" parks The closest I'll ever get to microcoaster spam is a pair of synced shuttle loops
Comment from : @Warui88

I have never understood people who accuse other people of "cheating" at non-competitive single player games there is nobody to gain an advantage over so there is no cheating
Comment from : @angrynoodletwentyfive6463

Honestly who cares It's a single player game, it's not affecting anyone but yourself, play how you wanna
Comment from : @r3ked272

I never use them personally It's just not fun for me I enjoy making a nice looking fun park I never worry about min maxing
Comment from : @Spacecoke

Haha "P E N I S" on the ride sign in the thumbnail I can tell you put some effort into that screenshot given the perfect positioning of the lettering 👏
Comment from : @benoitb3679

Although I personally also beat RCT1 normally back in the day, I quite liked to learn the inner workings of RCT in general from you I imagine you'd do well in Factorio
Comment from : @ZetoBlackproject

Personally, the micro corkscrews feel a bit cheesy only because I learned about them from these videos I have no qualms about using tiny coasters that I designed myself Maximizing profit and space is a huge part of the game, so you should be rewarded for finding an effective design
Comment from : @destroythemanb07

I feel like cheating every time I place the same attraction twice on one map, unless they really belong there The good question to ask yourself, when you don't know if placing a coaster is cheating, is -Would I ride it?
Comment from : @KVerssus

Cheating and going against the spirit of the game are two separate things Micro coasters to me come across as exploiting knowledge of the game mechanics to increase performance at the cost of immersion and does go against the spirit of the gamebrBut it's not cheating It's in the game, and it doesn't require opening any sort of special menu or doing a secret combination to flip a switch
Comment from : @invenblocker

Another question should be if cheating is a problem In some games, yes, but in some games, nobrI would say that spamming micro coasters for normal play is cheating, but isn't a problem In a game like Rollercoaster Tycoon, deciding how you want to play, even if that means cheating or cheesy strategies, is all a part of the experience
Comment from : @xMaugrex

You're a socialist, yes? Yet, here you are "exploiting" park guests out of $7 for a rinky short ride with long wait times in a capitalism simulator Maybe you should play like a socialist
Comment from : @solarwind3656

I would say no, it's not cheatingbrIt's a ride that can be built by the logic of the game, so from a gameplay perspective, it's allowedbrPark attraction is per ride, so more rides are clearly better The game is designed in a way that encourages many small ridesbrGuests will ride on them, so there is demand for the coastersbrNot cheating, but abusing intended mechanics in a super calculated, and somewhat boring way
Comment from : @HappyBeezerStudios

If I went to a park with a cool microcoaster and there was loads of them that'd be great for me! No waiting in line!
Comment from : @riglow

I use micro coasters to beat parks i dont want to actually play, so that i unlock scenarios that i do want to play in the 'normal' way
Comment from : @jamesflameson

I think the purpose of the game is lost if you build these kinds of things in your park
Comment from : @poingpoing11

The spamming is the main issue for me I feel like if there are maybe 5 (in order to give some flexibility with racing coasters) or more builds of the same type, it should continuously divide the excitement rating by 2 for all of thembrAlso guest cap increase should be directly affected by the stats, mostly excitement again
Comment from : @MegaRogash

I think the microcoasters are very satisfying to look at and build, though a mix of different designs or coaster types would probably have more fans most of these designs remind me of quaint little town fair rides and i love the throughput and usefulness of them too I think the guest cap system isnt as well thought out as the rest of the game for sure and that is the reason these exist at all a massive super fast roller coaster would obviously bring in more guests in real life but this game is old and relatively simple and thats why its great
Comment from : @ExtremelyBurntToast

I liked the microcoasters you put in the let's play! it was just a couple, plus you decorated it so it wasn't boring to look at I think you should keep them, especially since they increase the amount of cash you get and stuff you can build
Comment from : @berryblast6740

at the end of the day, play the damn game however you want
Comment from : @mrtorllin

Advertising is calculated in the game design, which is why it costs are relativily high compared to its effects Building super cheap but objectively lame coasters in a large amount for the purpose of getting more money, guests or value is a completely different story Is it cheating? It depends, what you use it for Building a few of these coasters totally fine imo
Comment from : @brownbear8936

I think people think it's cheating because you copy and paste same roller coaster a lot in one park It's too unrealisticbrBut it's ok It's your way to achieve senario You found one of way to complete the gamebrAlso, you don't do this just for fun like kiddos and we all know your skill of making rollercoaster is wonderful
Comment from : @佳石まこと

I think they're fine, especially when you set them up in a cool rainbow pattern etc It does add a lot to the aesthetic of the park But just spamming the same one over and over until the entire park is filled isn't really fun to watch, or play It's just to see how crazy it can get
Comment from : @Jonathan-bu7iv

This is cheese, not cheating There are no cheats being used here, there are no modifications of game memory This is just a use of game mechanics
Comment from : @zawzorz

"Micro Coasters are cheating" (Proceeds to place 5 Shuttle Loops in every park, a prebuilt microcoaster)
Comment from : @nathan91217

I do feel like it is a bit cheating or at least over powered to make a coaster that is 4-5 tiles pieces and charge that amount of money In my personal opinion, a launched coaster that just goes up the corkscrew (or loop or hill) and immediately returns are the real offence A micro coaster that does at least one lap, for me, doesn't seem as bad That said, I really don't care You play the way you like and like you said, it enables you to build the bigger cooler rides The cool thing in my opinion is that RCT has the ability to do your own self imposed challenges and the micro coaster is a tool to get you there Obviously it isn't going to get nerfed so instead you buff the goal I do agree, there isn't much reward to beating a standard scenario abusing micro coasters if you can't do it without them
Comment from : @anubis520

To me, “how to play the game” should be to create a park that could exist in real life… 20 micro coasters side to side is not realistic 2 is and I don’t mind it
Comment from : @Xaw13

I think micro-coasters look in real life too Kennywood in Pittsburgh has a football themed launch mini coaster and it’s super fun I implore people to go ride it, it’ll change your mind
Comment from : @Pressbutan

I dont like microcosaters like the corkscrew ones, but they have inspired me to build small coasters with good stats I like my park to look nice and realistic But I totally get why people would use them
Comment from : @SteffidelaM

Just a heads up, the looping micro coaster you use does not work in RCT Classic, it flies off the back of the station and crashes 😣
Comment from : @culture_clash

I mean if someone can only beat a scenario for the first time ever by using micro coasters it is a bit lame but ofc I don't really care, just have fun! I certainly mod the ever living crap out of games after I have fully explored and beaten them
Comment from : @bradnewsbear

I feel like if real world tycoons of theme parks could get away with doing that, they would Exploiting the systems at the sacrifice of a quality product is what a tycoon does lmao
Comment from : @larryinc64

How do you copy and paste a custom made coaster?
Comment from : @carriewilliams2174

Cheating? No Cheesing? Yes Meh It's "A" way of many to play the game
Comment from : @Genecaster

I wish they made an official rct version with a bit of visual improvements and all of these things corrected and the visitors reacting to microcoasters more like how they would in real life
Comment from : @SnerpKnoep12

It’s not a cheat, but it is an exploit of poor game design If exploiting that makes the game more or less fun/exciting to watch depends on the game, goal and result
Comment from : @kanrakucheese

Yes it’s cheating because makes beating the scenarios too easy brThe game should have put length stat requirements for all rollercoasters to cover for this
Comment from : @harbirgrewal4372

coaster is coaster
Comment from : @Pepperpants_Coasters

What? There are people out there that enjoy video games bwithout/b breaking them by discovering and abusing bugs and exploits? brWtf is wrong with them?!
Comment from : @DamienD

I think Marcel Vos is good enough that he can make every micro coaster organically unique yet fit into a 16 * 16 square It'd be more impressive if he did them with ultradense parks in mind, while maximizing excitement rating
Comment from : @jasonsoliva6678

Here's an easy flowchart that explains it:brbrAre you playing in single player?brYes: You're fine Play the game any way you like There is no cheatingbrNo: Are the other players aware and okay with it?br- Yes: Go for it, but don't complain if the others do it, too br- No: You're ruining other people's fun Stop
Comment from : @alameachan

Honestly one of my biggest pet peeves would have to be people who endlessly whinge and whine about how someone decides to enjoy a isingle player game that they own/i
Comment from : @StalwartTirith

In short, microcoasters arent cheatingbrThey are powergaming
Comment from : @ethribin4188

i think the coasters shown at 5:35 and 5:45 are good examples of how microcoasters should be integrated into a park and how you can build them without it being a "cheese" I 100 could see something to those be in a real park as a tame ride for kids and non-thrill seekers, plus they're built in tandem with each other making the 2-4 rides act as a single attraction (from a realistic standpoint)
Comment from : @esparttt

On some levels, such as Harmonic Hills, don't worry about using the Corkscrew Microcoaster; you're not being cheap - that level is cheap and deserves some payback
Comment from : @stevenstice6683

Are they considered cheesy because they're actually overpowered compared to other tricks and tools at your disposal, or are they considered cheesy because they blook/b cheesy and absurd compared to other tricks and tools at your disposal? You can only really figure out their utility if you start looking at numbers you're normally not supposed to see, but the same goes for a million other things in this game that don't have nearly as much as a negative stigma
Comment from : @hoxatron6024

If it wasnt intended it wouldnt be in the game
Comment from : @shakeweller

I have no issue with micros and it all just depends on what you're doing Obviously for speedrunning using them makes sense as with any speedrun of a game you want to use any game mechanics available to he fast But obviously if you want to play a scenario legitimately you can
Comment from : @CaptinPaulx

I think what it really comes down to in terms of people not liking micro coasters is that they don't look like something you would see in a real theme park Advertisements are way overpowered in RCT2, but they're also just a normal part of how theme parks in the real world make money too Micro coasters, on the other hand (at least the really small and effective ones like the tiny corkscrew) are really only a thing in RCT2 because of the benhind-the-scenes mechanics of the game I think that's why people take so much more issue with them than other aspects of the game that are just as overpowered
Comment from : @adammaher403

I think guests get bored after a while aren't they? Renewing guest make them ride again and again Ultimately, for me, it comes down to absolute possible guest source pool Adding concept of repeater customer and repeating customer changing taste would be interesting but that is out of scope of the current game
Comment from : @NyasuNasu

I don't use microcoasters, but I do use micro-mazes, which, in addition to attracting a few guests each, also look good and blend in when put together
Comment from : @felixcroc

I would say brWhen a coaster is build in real life, how much fun would it have brSmall Coasters or "Coasters for children" are still very small and mild, yet still have they real life value brBut if I see something like your Corkscrew Micro Coaster, I would never go onto this coaster since it's just a waste of time br(Like I said, just my opinion) brI will always ask myself "Would I ride this coaster in real life and would I have at least a bit fun while riding it" brbrAnd Micro-Coasters will give me a "no" to the answer So I wouldn't build them But you do you
Comment from : @SryBut

I think one of the standards people use is suspension of disbelief Micro-coasters are something you can't really justify someone actually paying roller-coaster prices to ride
Comment from : @pyritefoolsgold3521